Comments on: The U.S and us: The H-1B Debacle http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/ Disruptive Technologies, Modern Education, Shrouded Social Issues and Dirty media propaganda Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:58:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: The Nomad http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4974 The Nomad Sat, 02 May 2009 08:40:29 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4974 You said it Jithin. I was just imagining our own plight when India would be branded a global back office. Coz I've known an IIM-K guy working at GENPACT doing some low level accounting stuff for good money. I wonder if Indians are only guided by the lure of money. You said it Jithin. I was just imagining our own plight when India would be branded a global back office. Coz I’ve known an IIM-K guy working at GENPACT doing some low level accounting stuff for good money. I wonder if Indians are only guided by the lure of money.

]]> By: Jithin http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4917 Jithin Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:08:26 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4917 Some random thoughts, "US firms kind enough to give them a chunk of their low level IT work." I don’t think it was out of charity or the goodness of their hearts that the US outsourced their low end IT jobs, we added value to their system by reducing their cost and hence letting them earn higher returns on their investment. Hence during a recession, at a time when profits are dwindling, does it make business sense to cut an input that cost x and then add an input that cost 5x which both provides the same value addition. I don’t think so. Hence what US doing right now, in my opinion: is not sustainable. One thing good about the new economy is that no one can really guide it the way they want it. Not even the big mighty US Gov. Even though they would’ve loved to get all their call center seats filled by American, it is impossible because no day would americans be ready to work at Indian rates. And sooner or later all American companies will have to outsource their low end jobs to India else they will loose their competitive advantage to companies from other countries that do outsource. So what should US be really doing? In My opinion..Let them all outsource...don’t bother to hold on to all that silly call center jobs. Instead invest more on their new generation's science education. Re enact the whole cold war “Man on the moon” drama which created the highest number of scientist in US. Make their citizens capable of leading their companies from the top with innovation and enterprise. Don’t waste their time on these silly ‘outsourcable’ jobs. Outsource everything they can and focus only on their strength: To Innovate Now I know right now thanks to the recession and the job losses all this seems a little too difficult to implement. But I am sure in 5 years time, this is what US would be doing: (Creating more innovators and outsourcing like hell!!) Else they'll go down. And I don’t think they are that stupid :) Some random thoughts,
“US firms kind enough to give them a chunk of their low level IT work.”
I don’t think it was out of charity or the goodness of their hearts that the US outsourced their low end IT jobs, we added value to their system by reducing their cost and hence letting them earn higher returns on their investment.
Hence during a recession, at a time when profits are dwindling, does it make business sense to cut an input that cost x and then add an input that cost 5x which both provides the same value addition. I don’t think so.
Hence what US doing right now, in my opinion: is not sustainable. One thing good about the new economy is that no one can really guide it the way they want it. Not even the big mighty US Gov. Even though they would’ve loved to get all their call center seats filled by American, it is impossible because no day would americans be ready to work at Indian rates.
And sooner or later all American companies will have to outsource their low end jobs to India else they will loose their competitive advantage to companies from other countries that do outsource.
So what should US be really doing?
In My opinion..Let them all outsource…don’t bother to hold on to all that silly call center jobs. Instead invest more on their new generation’s science education. Re enact the whole cold war “Man on the moon” drama which created the highest number of scientist in US. Make their citizens capable of leading their companies from the top with innovation and enterprise. Don’t waste their time on these silly ‘outsourcable’ jobs. Outsource everything they can and focus only on their strength: To Innovate
Now I know right now thanks to the recession and the job losses all this seems a little too difficult to implement. But I am sure in 5 years time, this is what US would be doing: (Creating more innovators and outsourcing like hell!!) Else they’ll go down. And I don’t think they are that stupid :)

]]> By: Sidharth Vijayan http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4799 Sidharth Vijayan Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:26:13 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4799 Great post. I would not blame americans cutting work visas for companies getting government aid. Its tax payer money that bailed out the company and its these tax payers that loose american jobs to employees from abroad. Absolutely fair deal! Great post. I would not blame americans cutting work visas for companies getting government aid. Its tax payer money that bailed out the company and its these tax payers that loose american jobs to employees from abroad. Absolutely fair deal!

]]> By: The Nomad http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4746 The Nomad Thu, 19 Mar 2009 09:42:12 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4746 @talkingcomet WOW.... thank you for bringing me back to earth or more specifically to India...I for one have NOT come across a SINGLE instace where the stock markets have gone up or crashed because of a crop failure or lack of rains...I never said Indians=IT guys.. I just said MOST of EDUCATED Indians= IT guys...have a different opinion on that one as well? And usually stock markets serve as a good indicator of health of the economy in general..So I wouldn't be mistaken if I say that the economy is not firing on all four cylinders if the stock markets aren't doing too well... My job here is to merely draw up an analysis and let you guys decide...So asking questions is a good way of doing that. Thanks for your time and energy anyway. Appreciate it. @Kenney, You're right on both the counts.. The agriculture one AND the manufacturing one..Personally, I jsut DO NOT know if services is indeed the way forward. Whatever it is, I just hope it ain't outsourcing... @talkingcomet

WOW…. thank you for bringing me back to earth or more specifically to India…I for one have NOT come across a SINGLE instace where the stock markets have gone up or crashed because of a crop failure or lack of rains…I never said Indians=IT guys.. I just said MOST of EDUCATED Indians= IT guys…have a different opinion on that one as well?
And usually stock markets serve as a good indicator of health of the economy in general..So I wouldn’t be mistaken if I say that the economy is not firing on all four cylinders if the stock markets aren’t doing too well…
My job here is to merely draw up an analysis and let you guys decide…So asking questions is a good way of doing that. Thanks for your time and energy anyway. Appreciate it.

@Kenney,
You’re right on both the counts.. The agriculture one AND the manufacturing one..Personally, I jsut DO NOT know if services is indeed the way forward. Whatever it is, I just hope it ain’t outsourcing…

]]> By: Kenney Jacob http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4745 Kenney Jacob Thu, 19 Mar 2009 05:27:31 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4745 @TalkingComet First of all, the article is not written by me. Its from a friend of mine. Regarding your comments, you may have pointed out a factual mistake. But look at the economies of developed countries and see how much of contribution to GDP is from agriculture. You will be surprised to see that its mostly a single digit number. The future is services, and not even manufacturing. @TalkingComet

First of all, the article is not written by me. Its from a friend of mine.

Regarding your comments, you may have pointed out a factual mistake. But look at the economies of developed countries and see how much of contribution to GDP is from agriculture. You will be surprised to see that its mostly a single digit number. The future is services, and not even manufacturing.

]]> By: talkingcomet http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4743 talkingcomet Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:05:24 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4743 Traditionally, Indian economy has been heavily dependent on IT outsourcing Really? The ravings of a guy who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.. Look outside man.. Indians ≠ IT Guys.. The majority of Indians are still farmers.. You have doubt, look what happened to Mr. Naidu in your home state? The contribution of Agriculture to India's GDP is still around 20-25% while IT may be around 5-8%. [Am not an economist..] And heck yes, I still agree with you Mr. Wise guy.. Why did we choose the easy path? Why did we choose service over innovation and products? Well.. I think some one should stop asking questions and start doing something.. And again the next question comes.. WHAT NEXT DEAR SIRS? That I leave it for Kenny to answer!!!! Traditionally, Indian economy has been heavily dependent on IT outsourcing

Really? The ravings of a guy who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.. Look outside man..
Indians ≠ IT Guys..
The majority of Indians are still farmers.. You have doubt, look what happened to Mr. Naidu in your home state? The contribution of Agriculture to India’s GDP is still around 20-25% while IT may be around 5-8%. [Am not an economist..]
And heck yes, I still agree with you Mr. Wise guy..
Why did we choose the easy path? Why did we choose service over innovation and products?
Well.. I think some one should stop asking questions and start doing something.. And again the next question comes.. WHAT NEXT DEAR SIRS? That I leave it for Kenny to answer!!!!

]]> By: The Nomad http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4730 The Nomad Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:43:45 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4730 @Anurag, Thanks a lot for your review. I completely agree with you when you say that now its more like we are FORCED to do whatever US doesn't want to do. There's nothing called an absolute independece unless of course you're talking about countries like DPRK ( they don't have any money anyway). My point here is that right now we're HEAVILY dependent on the US. How fair is that? Its more like we're underminng our own capability to create jobs for ourselves. Japanese economy is undoubtedly heavily dependent on the US economy but in a completely different manner, I comprehend. Indeed, a hit in the Chinese economy is the last thing US treasury wants at the moment given the kinda money they've in circulation. My fundamental point here is that perhaps if we can create good jobs for ourselves, we would not be begging. @Anurag,

Thanks a lot for your review. I completely agree with you when you say that now its more like we are FORCED to do whatever US doesn’t want to do.

There’s nothing called an absolute independece unless of course you’re talking about countries like DPRK ( they don’t have any money anyway). My point here is that right now we’re HEAVILY dependent on the US. How fair is that? Its more like we’re underminng our own capability to create jobs for ourselves. Japanese economy is undoubtedly heavily dependent on the US economy but in a completely different manner, I comprehend. Indeed, a hit in the Chinese economy is the last thing US treasury wants at the moment given the kinda money they’ve in circulation.

My fundamental point here is that perhaps if we can create good jobs for ourselves, we would not be begging.

]]> By: The Nomad http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4729 The Nomad Mon, 16 Mar 2009 03:30:47 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4729 @ Kenney, Studying economics at this time would be like jumping from the frying pan to the fire! I'm no economist but the whole thing did turn me on. A lot of my analysis was purely based on observations and hard numbers. And as Anurag suggests, its best to just stick to reading( u may read more of mine if u wish to :) ) and if you're careful enough, it will all start making good sense. @ Kenney,
Studying economics at this time would be like jumping from the frying pan to the fire! I’m no economist but the whole thing did turn me on. A lot of my analysis was purely based on observations and hard numbers. And as Anurag suggests, its best to just stick to reading( u may read more of mine if u wish to :) ) and if you’re careful enough, it will all start making good sense.

]]> By: Anurag http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4728 Anurag Sun, 15 Mar 2009 04:00:21 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4728 A very informed and interesting article. Things are getting more competitive thats for sure. There will be a time when we will take the big leap and the paradigm shift towards innovation will take place in the Indian IT Industry. Now given the state of indian higher education and research, infrastructure and awareness we will have to settle with status quo and will have to do the kind of work nobody wants to do in the US. But even when we do release ourselves from this dependence, i fell we will find ourselves into yet another kindof depedence. Every country is linked with all other and there are bound be damaging ripples when an event such as this occurs once in a while. Even Japan and US questions now its links with the US, is that comparable to India-US offshoring relationship? No. If the economy of China tumbles and US gets a hit, im pretty sure the Americans would be asking the same questions. @ Kenney I really doubt a course would be of much help. Witnessing this great depression taking shape has only confirmed my convictions that it is impossible for one man to even graph a minuscule aspect of the world economy. I suggest you stick to reading and trying to connect dots, perhaps Wikipedia would suffice for the basics. A very informed and interesting article. Things are getting more competitive thats for sure. There will be a time when we will take the big leap and the paradigm shift towards innovation will take place in the Indian IT Industry. Now given the state of indian higher education and research, infrastructure and awareness we will have to settle with status quo and will have to do the kind of work nobody wants to do in the US.

But even when we do release ourselves from this dependence, i fell we will find ourselves into yet another kindof depedence. Every country is linked with all other and there are bound be damaging ripples when an event such as this occurs once in a while. Even Japan and US questions now its links with the US, is that comparable to India-US offshoring relationship? No. If the economy of China tumbles and US gets a hit, im pretty sure the Americans would be asking the same questions.

@ Kenney
I really doubt a course would be of much help. Witnessing this great depression taking shape has only confirmed my convictions that it is impossible for one man to even graph a minuscule aspect of the world economy. I suggest you stick to reading and trying to connect dots, perhaps Wikipedia would suffice for the basics.

]]> By: Kenney Jacob http://www.kenneyjacob.com/2009/03/15/the-us-and-us-the-h-1b-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-4727 Kenney Jacob Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:59:58 +0000 http://www.kenneyjacob.com/?p=2023#comment-4727 I am not totally confused, what is an economy ? How does it grow ? How does it shrink ? What is money ? Everyday I am confused with new analysis and opinions. Will joining for a course in economics help ? I am not totally confused, what is an economy ? How does it grow ? How does it shrink ? What is money ? Everyday I am confused with new analysis and opinions. Will joining for a course in economics help ?

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