Original post @ http://anoop-log.blogspot.com/
I am pasting here the letter i sent to the following e-mail address
ask@incometaxindia.gov.in and cc-ed to presidentofindia@rb.nic.in
=====
The Honorable President of the Republic of INDIA and officials of the IT Dept .of INDIA,
I am a citizen of INDIA with a valid PAN and wanted to submit my returns in electronic form
But the preparation software is available only in Microsoft Excel form and being a GNU/Linux user and not being able to afford Microsoft Products; i am unable to use this facility
It is a matter of utter shame that in a country whose father of nation is Mahatma Gandhi ;a man who stood for the freedom unto his death that you do not provide a Open Source /FOSS friendly utility
Shame on the Income Tax Department and the IT heads who made the software choice.What do you people think – that i have to buy a Microsoft corporation product just for filing my Income tax returns . You know it – I do a shit and with the fundamental rights i have as a citizen of INDIA ; and with the “Right to Information ” about which you have so elaborated on your website ( http://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/ccit/rtipage.asp ) ; i demand the source code of the application that prepares my returns for e-filing!!
Please try to use Open Document Spreadsheet ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument ) and i demand the implementation of e-filing in an Open Document at the earliest possible time
Can you crap people provide it
NB: All use of abusive language is to provide you with the feeling of utter frustration that i have felt .Also the contents of this email have been publicized in my blog.So dont think you can keep your eyes shut on this very important matter
So fucked up!
–
Anoop P Alias (PGP Key ID : 0×014F9953)
http://GnuSys.net
====
Kenney,
I had read this post some days back and found it to be ridiculous,immature and childish.
Asking for the source code of the application used is similar to asking Chief Secretary’s daughter’s mobile number using RTI, that dumb!!!
The GOI has never ever promised any citizen that open source applications will be used in IT returns.
How can one demand according to my whims and fancies.The language used does speak a lot of this sender.
In a world where things are not standardized,every Govt. will have to adopt a system/standard that is popular.
Most of GOI websites have pdf and doc documents for download, the formats that are popular.
I am sure his Utopian ideals would go down the drain.
Anyways, good luck with his efforts.
-Nikhil
Comment by Nikhil Narayanan — August 2, 2008 @ 8:19 pm
@Nikhil: you may not be aware of the degree to which various govts around the world are embracing open standards. The real issue the author should have stressed more about is the use and endorsement of a proprietary and locked-in data format controlled by a profit-oriented american corporate behemoth. No govt department in the US for instance insists on ANY proprietary standard.
The original author has gone overboard in asking for the source code. Its really none of his business(I do not know if RTI even allows this) But the author definitely has a fundamental moral right to ask the govt to explain why its using a locked-in format in a country where most people cannot afford a MS license as overhead.
The question is really of Open standards and formats, not open source.
Comment by Vimal George — August 2, 2008 @ 9:49 pm
@Nikhil
I dont care what you think about me! by my language. But i am stressing it once more as i have to a commentor on the original post.- I have given all due respects to the President of INDIA and i am F$#$$%$ by the whole situation and not a person.And one of my friends commented that the President is a lady and we should be more soft…well ..the Supreme Commander of the armed forces of INDIA..who should be bold enough to oder a nuclear attack ( I am a pacifist..) to preserve the sovereignity of INDIA must be bold enough to read my mail ,else she can go and lead the life of normal housewife!
And do you have any idea of a software called Carnivore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software) ) .Mind you this isnt science fiction film stuff!. Every software that microsoft prepares has this piece of shit included and no-one..even the Honarable president of INDIA can do anything to stop a Microsoft Windows from sending what-it-wants to the most glorified terrorist agency in the world (the US govt.)
Ang how can you compare asking for Chief Secretary’s daughter’s fone number and asking for source code of a software that is preparing financial/classified info in the context of RTI!…you are commenting out of ignorance buddy
Now i dont mind my finacial infos to be revealed to the US govt..but the ITOffice / Govt of INDIA face a greater risk – the format of MS office files are properitary and binary which leaves the govt of INDIA at the sole mercy of MS!
Mr.Nihil..do research on something before you gonna call anyone immature /childish..bcause the people who speak out often knows more than you and doesnt want to eat baby food and ask INDIA to go and use the most popular software around!..(some porno viruses are very popular..so according to you all youths must use it..just because its popular)
And you are never a person to judge the fate of my Utopian Ideas..and it is not Utopian..its a purely practical thing which i am sure GOI will be forced to implement in the not so distant future
Ref:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/aug2000/micr-a09.shtml
Comment by AnoopAlias — August 2, 2008 @ 11:21 pm
@ Vimal
again its not only a matter of open standard..but of open source also. even if microsoft start using the ooXMl ,the software used will still be properitary and the first persons to know about the actual amount kept apart in the INDIAN budget for the INDIAN army would be the US govt!. there are far greater implications,as to the one you cited..how can a country which has a greater share of population Below poverty line ask its citizen to prepare IT returns using a closed source properitary software..
Now i am not a communist or a person having any political inclination..I am just the proponent of Libre Software (the monetory benefits comes as a added benefit)
From what i know of my 6 years of experiance in FLOSS..any FLOSS products are not in any way inferior..its just the corruption and the money power of the corporate IT giants behind the prop ones that bring them to governments and other public sector comps.
I earn my bread using GNU/Linux..so asking some one the source code or in a way progating GNU is of course my business!!
Comment by AnoopAlias — August 2, 2008 @ 11:37 pm
Anoop,
I still believe your mail to the Prez will not bring in any changes and will be shrugged off as a rant.
And your argument based on Porn viruses is again ridiculous. This time I am not amazed.
-Nikhil
Comment by Nikhil Narayanan — August 2, 2008 @ 11:41 pm
Nikhil,
Somepeople dont change howmuch ever we provide arguments for them to change…you can count me as one among them ..and i have already counted you to be the same
Comment by AnoopAlias — August 2, 2008 @ 11:56 pm
@Anoop: You still haven’t made a clear argument as to why the Central income tax department is entitled to give you the source code of an internal computer application(that proabably processes 10’s of thousands of other online forms ; mission-critical app, right?). The reasons for such a request are not justifiable on the basis of supporting FLOSS principles. I use Linux exclusively too 24/7/365. I think I know the clear distinction between Open standards and Open Sourced code. The priority is always Open standards. It works for the good of humanity. Open source may not serve every entity’s interests(eg. where secrecy is paramount)
And why drag Carnivore into this? The FBI doesn’t give away the code nor do the NSA publish specs of Echelon. Secrecy has its justified applications (for their respective applicants). I am not about to make blanket statements like USA is a terrorist state. Blame their outdated cold-war-esque Foreign policy gurus.
Some of your comments sound overbearing.
for instance, “And do you have any idea of a software called Carnivore … -text removed-…. Mind you this isnt science fiction film stuff”
Despite the political apathy you claim, your writing comes off as preachy and self-righteous. Perhaps, you never intended it to be or perhaps you always speak your mind. o_0 But, still, I think you can convey your arguments in a more civil way.
Viva FOSS.
Vimal
Comment by Vimal George — August 3, 2008 @ 2:14 am
hilarious, but I am not sure about the serious part of this letter. The govt. cannot possibly embrace everything open source for sure.
Comment by TheAnand — August 3, 2008 @ 3:05 am
“the Supreme Commander of the armed forces of INDIA..who should be bold enough to oder a nuclear attack ( I am a pacifist..) to preserve the sovereignity of INDIA must be bold enough to read my mail ,else she can go and lead the life of normal housewife!”
I simply love this part !!!!!
Being open source does not mean its unsecure. Linux is very secure and its open source too. So the govt can release the source of programs that it uses.
Comment by Kenney Jacob — August 3, 2008 @ 9:54 am
@Vimal
you said ” You still haven’t made a clear argument as to why the Central income tax department is entitled to give you the source code of an internal computer application”
Microsoft Office is not in any way an Internal Computer application of GOI!! . and again you are missing my point – I asked the source code not fo GOI to ask Bill Gates the same and provide it to me. They can simply start using FLOSS apps and meet my requirement.So its not about gettinf MS Office Source(who wants that crap anyway!) .But its about ensuring that anyone is able to view the source of the app that creates their financial statements
Open source may not serve every entity’s interests(eg. where secrecy is paramount) – again i dont know if you are saying just for argumenting- what do you mean by the above statement !?. what has secrecy to do with open source.
Carnivore was just an example..well we dont know exactly what MS office has under its hood and of course we .And US is a terrorist nation..because producing arms/killing innocent forign civilians etc comes under terrorism according to me
If were using moderate language..this post would not have had the attention it now gets and therefore the language has a purpose and the purpose keeps more importance than the way we achieve it.HOpe you got my point
Comment by AnoopAlias — August 3, 2008 @ 9:57 am
You all kidding me?
Why do you need MS office to use excel format?
Ask me how to use an open source spreadsheet editor to save a spreadsheet or open one in excel format.
Comment by Issac — August 3, 2008 @ 10:01 am
Okay long follow up comments and i havent read all of them. The letter to the prez just isnt convincing enough and the excessive profanity isnt helping much either. The loopholes and points raised aren’t backup with sound logic.
I think Anoop is unecessary psyched about MS Excel and having paranoid dreams of Excel having sex with him. Sorry dude, sarcasm
May I suggest now an open source alternative which can export excel files? http://www.openoffice.org/product/calc.html
.: Peace :.
ps: let the commander have her tea! and let nature(OSS) take it course
Comment by Anurag — August 3, 2008 @ 10:14 am
@TheAnand
Where do you live? in kerala?
If yes ask what software your state govt has embraced
Comment by AnoopAlias — August 3, 2008 @ 10:18 am
@Issac and Anurag
https://incometaxindiaefiling.gov.in/portal/individual_huf.do
Please try using an open source alternative and let me know if you are able to export the results to an XML file.
I wasnt able to do it..thats why i send the letter
Maybe it was just an error at my end..but do let me know if you are successful..
Thanks
Comment by AnoopAlias — August 3, 2008 @ 10:23 am
@Anurag…..that was hilarious!!!!!
@ Anoop – I think MS has great investments in the state’s IT mission for sure.
Not sure if thats the answer you are looking for.
Comment by TheAnand — August 3, 2008 @ 10:44 am
@TheAnand
Please dont simply try to defend your stand like cheap politicians.Please atlest check out what you are saying…again i find it an increasing trend among bloggers to just get over some1s head rather than checking out if there is some truth in what that someone says
Comment by AnoopAlias — August 3, 2008 @ 11:04 am
Chill buddy
I did not mean to enrage you…I just remember reading on some newspapers that MS is investing in Kerala for IT education.
Comment by TheAnand — August 3, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
About a year back I wrote a letter to president (Abdul kalam) and still waiting for a reply!
We all have the right to ask y open ource was not used but I dont think we can ask the source code. Some things are better kept locked…. Being a linux admin will you give your admin password to everybody?
More over Linux may be very userfiendly for u and me.. but nt for all!!! Most of the windows users in India find it difficul to use it.. We cant expect everyone to use open source/linux!
Keep us updated!!1 Lets see what happens.
Comment by Shoban — August 3, 2008 @ 10:17 pm
I used OpenOffice.org 2.4 and had no problems using the file.
Comment by Issac — August 4, 2008 @ 9:49 am
uhmmmmm … I don’t think this was necessary …. why can’t use a windows machine for 5 minutes to prepare the form ?
Comment by dinu — August 4, 2008 @ 10:43 am
@Anoop will you shoot a similar mail to your boss if you are frustrated with him and publicize in your blog?
Comment by Adheeth — August 4, 2008 @ 11:49 am
@Dinu
That is not an argument.
@Adheeth
These are called open letters and its a common practice to write such letters about matters that concern a lot of people.
Comment by Kenney Jacob — August 4, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
@kenney i was looking forward to a answer for the kind of abusive language used and that to sent to the First person!
I wonder if many people start venting the frustration of all the issues, how will “Her” mail box look like!
Comment by Adheeth — August 4, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
@Issac
thats great news, but were you able to run the macros?
Please fill some junk value into the sheet and on top right you will see a button called “GENERATE”
When i click on that it throws out an error. I guess my version Does not support VBA ( Visual Basic for Applications) macro which is needed for this to work
The download page specifically says MS Excel as a requirement.I tried in Ubuntu 6.06 LTS and SuSe 10.2
But anyways..the version of calc would not have been a hindrance if IT dept initially made the form to support OpenOffice and they would have made the software useable to a large base of poor Indians who cant afford a Microsoft Office ( remember Oo works in both Windows and Linux ).
And from the IT dept flash videos ,it seems they have the fuctionality made into the PDF ,so i think they are changing the stuff…good .atleast i can do it online next year
@all people who have some misunderstanding about open source and security.FYI there is no relation between them. Linux supports most of the security protocols and crytography. Security analysts always supports OSS because since the src code is open there will be fewer loop holes and even if one is found it will get very quick fix
@dinu – yes i am ready to use a windows for 5 minutes..please buy a License for Windows Vista and MS Office.You can send the money to my bank account also
and i would buy it myself
@Adheeth – Yes i would do the same to my boss( I am a FREE man and live in a FREE country). and President of INDIA is not my boss,she is given salary to hear and take actions for the complaints i have..got it!..and its my duty to tell the compalints i have to her
please note the mail is addressed to the IT dept. and the president is only carbon copied just to ensure..my complaint doesnt go in the Trash
@Anand – FYI the Govt of Kerala at present solely supports GNU/Linux for its e-governance program and IT@ school program and has recieved lots of praise from such eminent personalities like RMS.We should be really proud of our State Govt in this regard
Comment by AnoopAlias — August 4, 2008 @ 4:50 pm
Well this is what I think about this:
1. The IT department is using a format for electronic submission – that is proprietary – which means that any person who wants to submit his IT online has to use a Licensed version of the software which would cost around Rs 7000/- per License.
Well considering Indian consumer’s purchasing power – either the Indian Govt. wants people to go-on and embrace SW piracy – or they are asking you and me to spend another Rs. 7000/- and buy the software – that most of us cannot afford – which makes the concept of e-filing totally useless – as we will have to go back in the line and submit it ourselves…
2. About Asking for the source code for the program – I think the author’s intent was only to help by adding support for open source formats.
3. The Language – is rather too strong and the message gets drowned in the Language.
About other comments:
1. Linux and security – Linux has the best when it comes to security & Stability. Ask any network administrator if you want.
2. Open source does not necessary mean Linux only. There is plenty of other SW that is free – Like Openoffice from Sun Microsystems which is a Free word Processing application and is available both for linux and Windows.
3. Microsoft Investing into anything: I and I can vouch for this – If Microsoft is talking of investing into anything – it is only because behind it they will be driving some of their agreements that will make ten times more money…I know this cause our company is one of the bigger MS partners in Africa and India, and I have worked on some projects where they have done this…
Comment by JMJ — August 4, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
Freedom is our right.
Comment by Keralafarmer — August 5, 2008 @ 5:56 am
Thats the gutz, i’m appreciating it. but my point of view is be less abusive when we use the language.
i’d seen one similar letter somewhere, to mamooty. requesting him to re-consider his decision about representing himself as the ambassador of some microsoft products or its implementation.
We should point in to the facts and figures rather than becoming emotional. but still i can understand the stress and frustration of a true opensource supporter about the carelessness and stupidity of our govt.
The one thing which we can do is spread out this news to all channels of communication among the tax paying indian citizens, and complaint to the officials, it can be done by collecting signs and petition online services.
Comment by Renjith — August 5, 2008 @ 9:26 am
I agree. I didnt test the macros extensively. I just saw that they were running. I did not check the accuracy.
Comment by Issac — August 8, 2008 @ 4:59 am
Respected Governerji,
We, (Rakesh Gupta,Sanjay Sonkar,Daya Chavan etc.) were doing business on road side (D.J.Road Vile-Parele (W) Mumbai-400056.) for more than 25 To 30 Years.We are about 200 To 250 Hawkers and each Hawkers have 5 To 6 Families members.(200*6=1200) Members of Hawkers totally depend on daily income but from 05/05/2009 till date we are not allowed to do our business by BMC without any reason.We are now unemployed and no others source of income of our livelihood.All Hawkers have “TATA YUVA SURVEY NOS’ which was conducted by TATA YUVA GROUP For welfare of Hawkers & each hawker have Tata yuva survey nos.”SUPREME COURT” had also passed the judement in hawkers favours to allow the Hawkers on the same place unless until Sift to the “HAWKING ZONE.But till date no Hawking Zone come to light in our area and started removing hawkers without any reason.We are mentally very much distrub and no scope for any income to maitain our families and school going children expenses which is totally depend on it.Unemployment is the worst problem facing by our nation at present era.They are illeterate, economically backward,some are widow women and some are handicapped hawkers etc,totally depend on routine business.We are knocking all doors finally yours door hoping we get justice here.We (Hawkers) want to implement the Supreme Court Policy in our area and give the relief and also avoid us from local “Dalal and Corrupted Person” . Our conditon becoming deteriorating as day passes because there is no Rey of Hope except you.We kindly request you to come and see our condition how we are living just like “JINDA LASS”.Day by day prices are increasing of all commodities and facing very much difficult to run our families without any source of income.Some hawkers are started taking loan on interest basis from local moneylender to maitain their families and school going children expenses.Our and children future totally depend on our earning without income nothing can be happened.It is not only the matter of one hawkers just think about their family and loving children who’s future totally depend on it.We are doing nothing wrong,just earn and run our family. School going children future edcation totally depend on our source of income,your quick action will secure our future.
We ( Hawkers) all wants to implement specific policy and secure our future from uncertainties.Without your interfere nothing can be happened and pls avoid us from corrupted person in our area.
Sir,We are kindly request you to show prime interest in our matter and solve at earliest possible.
We all waiting your action in this regard……..
Your action is highly appreciated and give us great pleasure
Thanks&Reagards
Sincerely your;s
Rakesh Gupta (09967847832)
Sanjay Sonkar
Daya Chavan
Comment by RAKESH , SANJAY, RAJESH — December 6, 2009 @ 9:02 pm
——————————————————————————–
Respected Sir,
Subject: Horse keeping in residential area..
I want to draw your attention towards the problems of the people of our area . I am the resident of 11770/5 sat nagar Karol Bagh , New Delhi .We are suffering from a lot of problems due to the M/s Sindhi Ghori Wala who are rearing 25-30 horses for buiseness purpose in the basement of house no.11771/5 Sat Nagar right adjoining to our house . The whole area is stinking badly due to pollution created by them .In todays time when dengue, malaria , swine flu etc are outbreaking in Delhi. People of the area are living on the mercy of Delhi govt. We are approaching you very hopefully we are requesting you to stop rearing of horses in residential area so that people can live in pollution free and disease free area . seeking for the immidiate action against rearing such animals in rsidential area in heart of Delhi where as the govt is talking to control pollution in international level.ihave made this complaint to mcd dehi and police departments throu internet but there is no response Please take strong action onthis matter.
Thanking you,
yours sincerely,
Ritu Sharma
11770/5,sat nagar Karol Bagh
Delhi 11005
phone no :9958237999
Comment by RITU SHARMA — January 20, 2010 @ 6:07 pm
visakhapatnam
27/03/2010
my name is sampath kumar iam a graduate in science and postgraduate in physics(discontinued).
i have been suffering from some mental and physical problems a boy in the neighbour is insulting my studies as i scolded me(son in releation,kotak school visakhapatnam) and not only him but some citizens like in temples and msjids also.my aim is to pass IFS andhrapradesh.
my mother was rappeed.
there is no safty for our family.
i have one clue that i saw one man who looks like me(same face).
1.my mother.
2.my studies.
my father is an govt employee.
what should i do?
Comment by ch sampath kumar — March 27, 2010 @ 10:14 am
some people are trying to rape my mother in train in her journey visakhapatnam to bilaspur please arraing battaliens with wepons and kill
who ever involved in.
sampath
there is a sound from fan who is telling me every thing.
Comment by ch sampath kumar — March 27, 2010 @ 6:50 pm
See i dont care who the shit u r.. But let me tell u when u speak of The Honorable President of ma country like this i just have one thing to tell u .. Fuck off from this country. Do u get that. Fuck Off.. Well consider this me speaking in behalf of The honorable president of ma country..
Well u talk of opensource , u should understand this thing that i am a core open source user for the last 6 years.. I can suggest u ways to submit ur application
Use virtual box. Why the hell have they made it for. Not to move ur ass around it. And just submit ur appplication or watever shit it might be….
Well u dont have to show off that u know a lot about open source and just start a blog to create a hype about it.. Do u understand.. there are a lot of ways to promote opensource or in fact contribute towards it. Start fixing a bug or maybe make a new software in opensource.. I am telling u this after contributing a lot towards this open source..
Ok and now the president of India .. Dare u talk of her like that. I know it is ur bloody site. and u can unapprove this post .. If u got so much problem with our country move ur shit of this place. Do u get that.. Just FUCK OFF..
Get that.. I used these words not because i like to use them but because u spoke of the president of ma country.. Get that. Atleast now come to ur senses.. Wat a shit man.
Comment by George Varghese K — July 5, 2010 @ 10:25 am